Showing posts with label Thersites. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Thersites. Show all posts

Friday, September 5, 2014

I feel for Thersites

Bad timing...
Theresites' utter lack of kairos produce a situation in which it is impossible for him to make an effective argument even though the points he is making are completely valid.

Thersites' arguments are completely valid, and his critique of King Agamemnon's actions are accurate. However, his delivery was mounted at the wrong time. I honestly don't know if there could've been a worse time to pipe up and deride the king with the intention of humiliating him. Remember Ulysses has just finished putting a stop to the fleeing and has already convinced everyone to stay. Everyone's minds are made up. That's when Thersites really decides to "lay it on thick" and openly and candidly ill-speak Agamemnon. What we see here is a lack of kairos. Had Thersites decided to criticize the king moments earlier when everyone was in favor of leaving, he might have gained support. He might have even solidified in the soldier's minds the foolishness of the fight and the necessity of returning home to their families. Instead of support, he is beaten until bloody and weeping, then all of his fellow Achæans mock him. In this case the timing and environment where more important than what was actually said.

Speeches and Persuasion—The Greeks Get Convinced


Hello all!  I hope you are having a fantastic Friday! Homer’s Iliad is chock-full of intriguing examples of successful and unsuccessful rhetoric.  In the second book, gods and mortals alike use both rhetoric and figurative language to convince people of their own opinions.  For example Zeus (or Jove) sends a deceitful dream to Agamemnon to get the Achaeans to fight Troy.  The messenger is Nestor, a close friend of Agamemnon.  Thus, knowing that Agamemnon trusts Nestor, Zeus considers the audience of his dream, Agamemnon, when sending his false, persuasive dream.  Another successful use of audience, as well as kairos, comes when Agamemnon convinces his men to return home despite the false dream.  This brings up a question that maybe one of you could answer: why, if Agamemnon and Nestor trusted the dream, did Agamemnon want to send the men home?  However, Agamemnon does want to send the men home and cunningly mentions the men’s wives and children who are anxiously awaiting their return.  Kairos is thus implemented in this case because the Achaeans have been away from their families for nine long years without much success.  If Agamemnon attempted to use the “family card” in the first month of the voyage, for example, the men would not care as much and it would not be the opportune moment that kairos is.  


Agamemnon also speaks with great Greek decorum as he does not accuse the men, which would be rude, but rather speaks holding his “imperishable staff” and talks of pride and bravery, important aspects of Greek tradition and custom.  Homer uses fantastic figurative language to describe the common soldiers who flocked to hear Agamemnon speak.  Homer writes that “the people swarmed like bees that sally from some hollow cave and flit in countless among the spring flowers” in order to create an intriguing image in the minds of the people listening to the oratory.  Not only do the readers/listeners understand that Agamemnon was a great orator because of the flocking, but also that the people worked in a community as bees work in a community.  Furthermore, once the people are convinced to return home, “they surged to and fro like the waves of the Icarian Sea with loud cries towards the ships.”  This simile thus keeps listeners interested because they can picture the swarms of people gathering at the ships and the great, chaotic happiness of the people to return home.


Odysseus is also as successful a persuader as Agamemnon when Athena and Hera tell him to convince the others to fight against Troy despite Agamemnon’s commands.  Odysseus is most successful in his use of decorum and audience.  He speaks to the chiefs and the kings with great respect but consistent pushing toward the fight—“the flight is cowardly…we do not know Agamemnon’s mind.”  He thus maintains respect and control over the kings’ minds.  However, to the common soldier he is much more brusque and rude.  He tells them to “hold your peace” and “you are a coward and no soldier.”  Because of his knowledge of decorum and audience, Odysseus convinces all, even Agamemnon, to sack Troy. 


Homer also gives an example of someone who does not know the basic rules of rhetoric, kind of like how I don’t really know the rules of rhetoric yet.  Thersites rudely accuses Agamemnon of loving gold and women and having more treasure than the others.  However, Homer convinces us that Thersites should not be listened to by describing him as having “a glib tongue,” a shrill, squeaky voice, and being the ugliest man in the army.  Greeks prized beauty, so a man who was extremely ugly would also, by Greek customs, be extremely inappropriate and not worth listening to.  He broke decorum so much that Odysseus beat him up.  Thersites is a clear example of the problems with not knowing how to argue.


This blog post went well over 300 words, but the Iliad and especially book two, have so many intriguing examples of successful and unsuccessful rhetoric aided by figurative language that I felt I could not squeeze in most of it in only 300 words.  I would love to hear all of your thoughts, especially if you think that it was fair for Thersites to be beaten for his opinion and if you know the reason why Agamemnon wanted to go home after Zeus promised him, however falsely, victory against the Trojans.

-Katie Johnson