"I'm Sorry, That Sucks"

“Not every problem I confide in you needs to be fixed. Sometimes I just want to hear, ‘i'm sorry, that sucks.’”

Boys, have you heard this before? Probably from a girl right? And regardless of whether or not you are capable of fixing the problem the fact of the matter is you are forbidden from even attempting. Is this rational? Probably not. But does it eventually help an individual return to rationality? It is not scientifically proven, but from my experience I would say, yes. As we saw in Hecuba, sometimes we need to be validated in our irrational coping of emotions in an effort to return to rationality.

In the play, with the appearance of the women of Troy, Odysseus, and Agamemnon there was a common response to Hecuba’s penetrating grief. The gist of these statements was “your life is so terrible,” “you are the queen of sorrow, grief, and pain,” “I would rather die than sink as low as you have,” “you poor, old, lonely, slave woman.” Sounds pretty similar to the, “that sucks” concept doesn't it? But why did so many people validate her in her irrational expression of grief? Because, it eventually helps her return to rationality.

Lets analyze the situation. Hecuba, utilizing mimesis is able to effectively persuade others through emotionally charged language, to feel empathy for her and her situation. Then the listener, being filled with compassion, uses rhetoric to persuade Hecuba that she is justified in her all encompassing grief. They vindicate her and let her know she is rational in such extreme emotion. After she is comforted with this validation, she carries on with revenge (which in this society would be considered "rational" because justice was a right esteemed by the gods and executed by the people).

"I Wouldn't Be a Man If I Didn't Feel This Way..."?

Among the most popular songs by Josh Turner is… Completely irrational?! In some ways one could say so. In his song, “I Wouldn’t Be a Man” Josh Turner describes the feelings that he has about a woman who, he claims, he couldn’t ever “resist.” Both Josh Turner and Euripides had a similar story to tell in regards to a force that seems to be greater than reason itself. Josh Turner calls it love but, just like Euripiedes, focus’ on the physical attratraction between the sexes. Both authors of their trade recognize that to be irrational from time to time makes us rational (it’s called being human).

In the Euripides’ Bakkhai, the women are portrayed as those who are irrational or even “wild.” This includes their preferred location of irrationality; the wilderness. These women were found believing in a God who “must be punished for [his] evil sophistries” according to Pentheus. In essense, Pentheus is a man who represents rational thinking and does not believe in this God named Dynioses. We are able to see the contrast between men and woman as well as the roles they play. Whether an individual is considered irrational (such as Agaues) or rational (such as Pentheus) both sexes and both classifications have irrational characteristics.

In regards to how Pentheus is irrational I cannot state it better than Katie Johnson who, in her blog said, “His downfall, therefore, is not recognizing irrationality as a hugely powerful force that controls a bit of everyone’s life.”

From this we learn the rationale behind Euripides’ play script. It also demonstrates incredibly well that to be irrational one must also be rational. In other words, to be rational requires a level of irrationality. To claim that you are rational yet also claim that you are not irrational from time to time is completely irrational (a complete paradox). What I find so incredible is that this was the most rational part of his script.

In further considering, I came to more fully recognize how “irrational” it is to believe in God’s. Ultimately, believing in God allows one to put into perspective some of the “irrational” things in this world. Consider the doctrine of “the fall” of Adam. One could suggest that this doctrine puts into context why man (the natural man) is so irrational as well as teaching the importance of controlling those irrational behaviors. I have come to understand that through religion itself we are able to also deal with irrational behavior whether we believe in it or not.

The Value of the Irrational

If I wanted to write about what didn't make sense to me I could talk about how the Greek mythology is fantastic and totally strange, but there was something even more puzzling to me in Euripides' Bakkhai. I find Pentheus' obsession with order to be even more irrational than a baby being stitched to the thigh of the father and being carried to full term after the mother was struck by a lightning bolt (even though that is pretty crazy). The actions of Pentheus show that he simply cannot let the women carry out their rituals in the wilderness. Before he decides to play peeping tom, Pentheus is organizing a military effort to contain the followers of Dionysus, a blunder he pays for with his life. Simply stated, it is irrational to try to control the irrational. In this case the irrational could be interpreted as: Pentheus' need for order and control, the mad women in the wilderness, or at times unchecked lustful temptations.






I think a very valid point is made though the telling of this story. If we don't allow any sort of irrationallity in our lives, it could fester and manifest itself in other ways. Like Pentheus' orderly kingdom we can drain our live of the irrational. In this vacuum there is a certain draw. I argue that there always need to be something irrational in our lives.  I don't think we should allow ourselves to do what ever we want, but if don't allow any space in our lives for something irrational, we might have adverse consequences of seeking it out in a moment of weakness.





I've noticed that in my life I have a total and irrational need for a "relaxation day." I have a day every week where I basically do nothing. I know this is irrational. But I also know I work harder during the
week because of my "relaxation day." My thought process is this, "I've already binged out all of my laziness this week and now I have to work." I know this is just made up in my head, but if I were a completely rational being I think I would go crazy. As evidenced by Euripides, complete self-indulgence can be just as harmful and complete self-denial.

Mother Moo

The Irrational

In preparation for his expedition to go look at the Bacchae women, Pentheus has an exchange with Dionysus where he learns that he will need to disguise himself. As Dionysus explains that Pentheus will need to dress up like a forest woman, wearing “a rich and trailing robe of fine-linen… a snood… [a] dappled fawn-skin and [a] wand,” he resists, saying “Nay, I will not” and, “Enough! I cannot wear a robe and snood.”

Even though Pentheus has some initial resistance to this mandated cross-dressing, his rationality breaks down and he ends up doing it.

The Rational
Euripides uses his craft to help us understand this irrationality of cross-dressing. He reveals that Dionysus, while acting as Pentheus’ guide, can use Pentheus’ curiosity to manipulate him to do something irrational. He helps us realize that when we rationally put our trust in a guide or leader who knows more about something than we do, we may be led to do something irrational.

Euripides develops Dionysus as a character who is definitely in control and can lead or compel others to do irrational things.

The Personal
I was at Girl’s Camp and my older sister invited me to go to the older girls’ cabin and play a game with them. They told me that one girl in the group was going to be the guesser and leave the cabin, another girl inside was going to be silently chosen as the loudest mooer, and then when the guesser girl came back in, everyone would moo loudly at the same time, and the guesser girl would guess who mooed the loudest.

We played one round and then I was chosen to be the loudest mooer. The guesser girl came back in and everyone counted to three, and then I mooed as loud as I possibly could. “MOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!” But no one else was mooing. I was yelling like a cow and I was the only one doing it. I felt so embarrassed and irrational, but decided it was ok because I believed and trusted my guide, my sister.

I don’t think that this technique of attributing irrational acts to some guide or leader is always appropriate. I believe that we each have our own agency to act how we want to. However, Euripides does a great job of highlighting this technique that I am sure many people have experienced.

Praise, Greed, Escape

The Irrational:

-          First, it is very irrational for Dionysus to be so bitter about not being praised (see lines 378-379). I would be a little upset if people didn't take me seriously as a person or a god, but the fact that not everyone is praising him for his godhood it kind of pitiful and greedy. I don't know if I was accurately interpreting the text, but it seemed like he was upset that he 1) wasn't able to be ruler of Thebes, but also that 2) he couldn't get the entire city to worship him. Then again, Kadmos and Pentheus are the same way- only wanting the power and praise (see lines 394-398).

-          The next completely irrational thing that I found was the different ways that they treated each gender. I understand that at this time, women were seen as more frail and delicate and men were the protector and powerful. I understand that gender roles were different. Even so, reading (on line 876-877) “Women defeated the men--- and not without some god” as if the only way any women could beat a man is with a god’s assistance. There were other lines, too, from that play that seemed fairly irrational in their views of women and men.

The Rational:

-          Although many of the actions portrayed in the this play prove the irrationality of thought in different characters, the play seems to display them in a way that proves rationality- Of course the idea that gods and the worship of them can encourage a whole group of women to abandon everything and run into the woods to become wild is absurd, it shows the rational and realistic view that people can be persuaded and change in character. The irrational (gods, etc.) makes a great framework for the natural (persuasion, wanting to be a part of something bigger, freedom, etc.)

           

The Personal:

-          I have used music in my life to get the freedom and fulfillment that I desire- I was able to feel belonging and purpose by playing in a concert band for about nine years. It’s just too bad that Dionysus couldn't find fulfillment and acceptance in some other way, and neither could the women that ran into the woods.

"Look up just a moment at the sky"

Two Sided Creatures

The human soul sometimes appears to be divided into two halves which often seem to conflict with one another. One half is the rational, which we associate with logic, contemplation, inventing, discerning, planning, predictability, and stability. We love the security that comes from this.

The other half, the half that I believe we sometimes fear, is the irrational. The irrational are the things about ourselves that we can’t often explain such as passions, love, hate, jealousy, and curiosity. Though understand very little about this second half, we must agree that through the ages it has often raged as the more powerful of the two. How many irrational decisions have we seen throughout history? Men influenced by their love for a woman doing things that logically don’t make sense, others overcome with emotions of anger that they do something that they later regret, and on a happier note, people who have sacrificed or done something charitable for someone else even though there was no personal gain involved. While seem to be creatures of both passion and logic, passion may be the more dominate of the two.

The persuading power of passions can be very scary and hard to understand, especially when you are experiencing them. It can be hard to see the forrest through the trees.The Greeks discovered that by experiencing the irrational via drama, art, music, or dance, it helped us to come to grips with this powerful and necessary part of ourselves.  

Some of my best Friends

A powerful lesson from the Bakkhai was taught to me through Kadmus. Kadmus’ daughter, Agaue, while in a trance, had done many things that she would later be ashamed of. She had no idea she was behaving so irrationally. Upon returning home and talking to her father, Kadmus draws her mind back to the way it was before and her world began to clear.

People have always been an important part of my life. Whenever I struggle to understand myself or feel that I might be behaving irrationally I go to someone I can trust and explain what I am thinking and feeling. Often in the process of talking to a loved one my world clears and I can see things the way they really are. Sometimes we just need someone to tell us to "look up just a moment at the sky"

Don't Abandon Ship!

            The desire to completely let oneself loose and forget all the troubles and forums of life is exemplified quite well in Euripides’ drama Bakkhai. The women run off into the wilderness, lose all sense of morality, and frolic in the woods away from family, responsibility, and civilized life. How could they just abandon their lives like that? How could they forget everything they hold dear?

The 'Abandon Family' ship has too many patrons

After thinking about it, I see those desires in people today. How many of you have considered just dropping out of college? Perhaps go gallivant the country just trying to get away from responsibility. I certainly have. Or when something big is about to happen in life, we desire to run away.

Perhaps more poignant is to look at how many parents (particularly fathers, but sometimes mothers too) abandon their family in search of goodness knows what. I have some great friends who had a parent desert them when they were young and can’t seem to rationalize why it happened.

The maenads personify this condition perfectly. They show us the craziness of letting it all go and running away. Agaue killed her own son because she let herself go too much. It is interesting to note that as soon as she makes it back to civilization she is able to get back to a more normal frame of mind. As soon as they “escape” from that which is their lives, they abandon all form of reason and would do something as unthinkable as murdering their own child. Had they never left they could have remained as a happy family in the city of their ancestors.

Is there a way to deal with this irrational desire to get away from it all? I have used sports for just such a purpose. It is a way to escape the rest of life and focus on that specific competition. I can go away from everything for a brief time, let it all go, and then make it back to regular life unscathed. Perhaps this is part of why watching sports are so popular in today’s world.

Fortunate Misfortune

Reading Euripedes' Bakkhai, all that was running through my mind was "wild."  In the story, the women of Bakkhai hide among the mountains performing their mystic rites, while Pentheus and his men seek to observe and thwart.  Unfortunately for Pentheus, his attempts to disprove the legitimacy of the Bakkhai's practices for the god Dionysus instead slowly convert those around him.  His men, after seeing the maenads dancing in the mountains and decimating villages in the most brutal of ways, cannot help but open their eyes to the power of Dionysus, admitting that he is in fact above mortals.  Through Dionysus' passive resistance and careful lulling, he slowly manipulates Pentheus to dress as a woman so as not to be torn to pieces for being a man amongst the maenads.  With this ploy of Dionysus, he successfully humiliates Pentheus before having his own mother kill him, a fitting revenge for one that mocked and questioned Dionysus' godhood, or is it?  Some may argue for, and some may argue against the rationality of Dionysus.  For me, however, the balance of attack and counterattack does not seem to settle evenly. 

In my own life, I had the worst of trials to surpass.  I needed to grit my teeth and trudge onward or else forever live amidst confusing, dark fog.  Wrongly punished?  Unfair?  If either was the case, it was an irrational punishment for nothing on my part.  Things just happened, I suppose.  Still, my "punishment" was impossibly brutal and set me back quite a few steps in life.  In response to this, I decided to vent and articulate my frustrations in print, writing my first book, Orrleth.  Through it, I was able to depressurize my rage at the world, recover from my mishap, and also provide some sort of good to the world if one so wished to read and enjoy.  Though the logical path would be to let myself stay frenzied at the world, I chose to regain composure and recover.  In that case, however, was that the rational thing to do?  Wasn't it irrational not to lash back at my persecutor in turn?  The only problem with that was that there was no particular offender who had committed the wrong.  It was just terrible luck, so why bother punishing the world, right?  

You can enjoy one of my first gifts back to the world by visiting my book website:

http://www.orrleth.com

I killed Mufasa...

I can always look back and remember times when I’ve heard “So I have this friend…”  We all know that this “friend” is really an easy way of not admitting something embarrassing of oneself.  It’s how we can talk about the undiscussed.  We can try to understand the topics that are not quite open for much understanding.  It is one way that we deal with the irrational.  And I may or may not have used this one unsuccessfully in my own life.

There are many irrational elements in the play Bakkhai.  But Euripides knew that the opportune moment for discussing these irrational passions was in the rational, comfortable and respected stage of the theatre.  He knew that he would have a large audience and could bring up these issues to the minds of many.   He knew that his audience respected the gods and would side with the chorus but at the same time he plays on their emotions.  Through the use of pathos the audience begins to pity Agaue.  Without realizing, she had killed her only son.  This stirs up a mixture of emotions.  Should the audience be happy because Dionysus showed his power as a god or should they be upset because a family had to pay the price through murder?  Euripides uses opposites to display that what is considered to be rational may not be all that rational in the end.

Speaking of irrational, the god Dionysus may not be the most rational of the greek gods. What kind of a god would trick women into becoming senseless killers?  In our culture we consider women to be daughters of the Most High God and to be respected.  Euripides turns things around completely by having an irrational, unforgiving, and ill-tempered god put women into a haze and use them as tools without agency to show his power.  Also family members killing other family members doesn't seem too godlike, yet it always reminds me of The Lion King.

Irrational punishment by those in power

In this play, we see an interesting characteristic of the irrationality of the powerful vs the rationality of the weak. In the middle of the play we see Pentheus, a mortal man, punish Dionysus, a relatively powerful demigod, by sending the latter to the dungeon. This type of punishment would fit the supposed crime that Dionysus had committed and would thus be classified as rational. Yet, at the end of the play, Dionysus creates an elaborate plan to brutally punish Pentheus by having his own mother rip him to pieces and braggingly carry his head around as a trophy. One would be hard pressed to argue that this punishment is rational for any crime. And thus, we see the strange paradox that people with power will act irrationally while those who are weaker will generally act rationally – with respect to punishing others.

I saw this exact same phenomenon in the military. While I was a new cadet at the United States Military Academy, those in charge of me put me through some rigorous tasks. On the whole, the cadre will fairly mean, but an occasion arose in which I could have gotten my commanding officer in a great deal of trouble for a mistake that he made. In my current, “weak” status, the idea of punishing my commanding officer, who had already felt guilty enough for his mistake, seemed unfair and irrational to me. I chose to let his punishment be self-inflicted and move on with life. A few years later, the roles reversed and I was in charge of training the new cadets. A bizarre change occurred while I was in command. I had the irrational urge to punish the new cadets as fiercely as was legally permissible. 

In retrospect, I link my irrational, punishment tendencies to that power that I held over the new cadets. The power turned to pride – a pride that felt tainted and slighted when the new cadets made mistakes. I felt it was a personal insult to me when they would mess up and therefor punished them severely. Whereas when I was the new cadet, void of any power, I saw no reason for excessive irrational punishment.

Becoming Fond of Justice

Justice. Seems rational . . . at least in our world where it is paired with mercy. In our world it is a means to repentance, healing, and to creating order. In the world of Bakkhai, justice is a vicious, fiery, irrational cycle of self-interest. It started with Zeus himself. “It was Zeus who was to blame for the wrongdoing in her [Semele] bed” (pg 46). And yet, only one individual had to answer the demands of justice, and it wasn’t Zeus. As a god he "could" completely exempt himself from answering to those actions. Dionysos, as a god, felt as if he had been treated unjustly. And in Bakkhai we read that he sought justice by then being unjust himself. These flaws in the gods are human. Are we not guilty of being more fond of justice when it is being brought to our offenders rather than when we ourselves are the offenders? But, because Zeus and Dionysos are gods and not mortals, that is where justice turned irrational and embodied revenge rather than order. Justice requires an authority figure who abides by the law. It’s in our humanity to oppose that order. Yet, the rationality is found when the one establishing the demands of justice actually adheres to the law while the one answering to justice learns to overcome his or her humanity. I think this is the point Euripides was trying to make. That justice only has a rational framework when the two parties are at different understandings of justice; because otherwise both in their limited knowledge act self-centeredly and impose injustice upon each other.

I saw this growing up in my own family and in the families I babysat. Parents are not perfect. In my experience though, all honestly try to be just and merciful with each of their children. I have witnessed so many cases where one sibling believes no matter what the request or consequence is that it is unjust. This child would always compare their punishments and rewards to those of the other kids in the family, never recognizing that even similar situations have different outcomes because of the other child’s ability to accept the consequences and not fight it. Eventually, each child’s understanding of justice evolves and they learn to respond differently. This development helps keep order intact. Choices have consequences that we do not choose. And there are loving authority figures who are trying to help us overcome ourselves whom we need to acknowledge and listen to. This understanding is rational and to believe justice doesn't apply to us or that we are somehow exempt is irrational.

The Irrational Acts of Revenge

Everyone has sought to get revenge in their lives and it wasn't until reading Bakkhai that I realized how irrational revenge is.  We don't like the outcome of an event, or we feel personally victimized by a situation, and it compels us to do some of the most irrational things.

Tommy and I couldn't even pretend to
get along and be happy at The Happiest
Place on Earth, Disneyland.

Dionysus was the son of Zeus and Semele (a human).  Although he was born of the most powerful god, none of the royal family accepted him as one of their own.  Dionysus always had a hatred towards the gods for rejecting him, wanted to get revenge and show them that he is truly an honorable god.  He went around getting humans to worship him in the woods.  He is so fixated on people following him, that when he has a hard time convincing King Pentheus, he tricks him into spying on the women in the woods, which ends in Pentheus getting ripped apart by none other than his mother Agave.  In the end of the play it never does say if the gods respected Dionysus and welcomed him, but my opinion is that they don't.  If they didn't respect him in the past fully knowing that he was the son of Zeus, then they would most likely not respect him after showing his power upon humans. 

When I was younger, my cousin Tommy and I hated each other.  He would push my buttons every time he could, and I would go crazy.  One time I remember in particular was when he kept hitting and knocking me over just to be mean.  After about a half hour of this, I finally went up to him an bit him in the back so hard it made him bleed.  My parents taught me to never bite, and that was one rule I always followed--except this one instance.  I went completely against my better judgement to show Tommy that I wasn't his punching bags, and man did it feel good!  In the end, Tommy still would pick on me and nothing changed, but I felt like I had to do something just like Dionysus.

Bakkh Humbug

RRRRRRIIIIIP.

Was anybody else just cringing as they read that section where Agaue tears Pentheus apart? Eugh. If that's not an irrational action, I don't know what is. It would've been one thing if Agaue was a mean murderous mother from the start. But when she comes back into town and wakes up from her worshiping craziness, she sorrows for what she's done. So the question is: why did she give in to this irrationality?

Let's look at it like this: 

  1) Agaue lived in the forest,
  2) and Pentheus lived in the city.

Euripides used this theatrical framework for Agaue's irrationality because all of us can understand the difference between the two settings. We all have a shared social perception of what each is like. Thus:

  1) It makes sense that Agaue took on the persona of a forest creature and became wild, violent, and rabid, even.
  2) It makes sense that Pentheus from the orderly, logical city fell victim to the chaos of the wild.

This seems much more rational, right? Instead of saying, "Agaue was overcome...swept away...Dionysos...ya know," we can say, "Agaue grew into a beastly creature--and did beastly things--because her environment affected her in that way."


In my life, writing is the way that I deal with my own irrationalities. I love to write poetry that uses symbolistic themes to express emotions--things that are difficult to express otherwise. I'm currently working on a poem like this for my creative writing class. It's entitled "A Popcorn Ceiling," and in the poem I use the pieces of (you guessed it) a popcorn ceiling to represent memories of home and family. This image, in turn, helps me express the rather abstract feeling of nostalgia. The popcorn ceiling is like my "setting" that I use to help other people understand and accept my topic.

Vengeance is Mine!

              Dionysus must have been pretty spoiled growing up to go as far as he did when things did not go his way.  In any case, he had Pentheus’ demise all worked out from at least the point when Pentheus puts him in jail.  Even though Dionysus knew that he could easily get out and no harm was done to him, he thought it only just to levy a rather harsh punishment on Pentheus and his family.   This may perhaps to an extreme degree reflect the irrational tempers of mankind, who often desires vengeance upon all those who are at odds with them.  Euripides catches the irrationality of Dionysus rage through taking the passive and rational figure of a mother and causing her to commit crimes that made me want to listen to church conference talks to clear my head.  I hope that everyone who feels like Dionysus gets some psychiatric help. 

I am Drawn that Way: Sex, Euripides, and Jessica Rabbit

Using an ancient Greek play and a Disney movie, I'm going to try to discuss how we use art as a way of dealing with the powerful human sexual drive. (This is my attempt to fulfill the assignment about Euripides I've given to my students, though this is longer than what they need write.)

Things don't work out for Pentheus
a peeping Tom among the Bakkhai

In the Bakkhai by Euripides, the character Pentheus wants to have order in his city but gets frustrated by the Bakkhai, women who go outside the boundaries of the city (and of morality) to celebrate the rites of the God Dionysus (or Bacchus). Those rites tend to include a lot of wine and little clothing. Despite himself, Pentheus is drawn to spy upon the celebrants. This proves his undoing.

The mask of Dionysus
suggests his animalistic power

In a sense Euripides provides a very common morality lesson: if you indulge sexual passion, it will cost you dearly. But the way he structures his play gives us interesting ways of understanding and dealing with sexuality. For one thing, the god Dionysus blatantly expects to be worshiped. Essentially, he says "If you don't participate in the licentious activities that I endorse, you're going to get it." We can dismiss this as the ravings of a fictional pagan god, or a cheap excuse to get drunk. Or, we can consider that Euripides uses Dionysus to personify primal human drives. In that case, it makes me wonder whether I respect Dionysus. (I'm not going to worship him. I believe in the Christian god, but maybe Dionysus is more metaphor than being.) But on to my Disney example.

Assignment: Euripides' Bakkhai and a Rationale for the Irrational

Pentheus Among the Bakkhai

I've asked my students to read the Bakkhai (or Bacchae) by Euripides. This play is providing some contextual background for the Greek development of the art of rhetoric.

Their assignment is to respond to the irrational and the rational elements of the play, and to personalize this (again) by drawing upon personal experience.

The Irrational
What are the things in this play that do not make sense? Consider the motives or actions of any of the characters, the degree to which these characters accurately reflect truly irrational aspects of us humans, or even consider how (un)realistic the play is. You can focus on Dionysus (or Bacchus). It may seem very obvious, but what's the problem or issues with a God like Dionysus? Say why this deity or what he does just doesn't make sense. Another angle could be gender: How is each sex represented as driven by things other than reason? How does sex amplify the irrationality of the human condition? Choose any of these approaches or something similar dealing with the theme of irrationality.

The Rational
Consider how Euripides uses his craft as a playwright to provide a rational framework for the irrational that is present in the play. How does he bring out opposites? Consider male / female, city / wilderness, etc. Does the highly formal nature of the play give a more discernible way of talking about the issues? I'm looking for discussion about the functions of art, language, and theater and how these provide structure and form for the meaningful investigation of powerful, irrational forces native to the human condition.

Sacrifice Your Body to the Beats

I want to talk about dancing and what persuaded me to do it. I used to be an active member of a group of dancing friends. We used to go to the “dirty thirty” held once a week in a cleared out living room of a house in southeast Provo. The DJ would play 30 minutes of loud dance music but even before he started, I would see the flashing lights and as I walked up the pathway to the front door I was compelled to start moving my body. We also went to the IDP twice a week at 10:30 or 11:00pm. This was a dance party held outdoors, usually at a traffic circle, public garden area, or on the top level of a parking structure. Each dancer would arrive with his or her own headphones and the 30-minute long track queued up on his or her iPod. Then the person who created the mash-up of electronic/pop/dance music would get up on top of a rock or pole, hold his or her iPod in the air, and shout “SACRIFICE YOUR BODY TO THE BEATS!” After which each person pressed play on their iPod and started dancing. 

This was crazy and irrational, but for me, the excitement of anticipating a fun hard dance session and hearing the loud music with strong beats was extremely persuasive. I was always driven to dance.

Now for Gorgias. I noticed that Gorgias talks about incantations, or magic spells. He says that, “By means of words, inspired incantations serve as bringers-on of pleasure and takers-off of pain (paragraph 10).” I would like to relate the dance music to the “inspired incantations” that Gorgias talks about. The lyrics and beats of the songs were definitely “bringers-on of pleasure” and they also took off the pain of feeling tight. They helped me loosen up and let go of my inhibitions and always persuaded me to move my body.

Here is a link to a mom’s blog post about attending an IDP with her daughters. This group was a little different than the one I used to dance with, and I have never met or communicated with this mom.

Irrational Love?

Maybe it’s me, or maybe it’s this old text, but I had a hard time wrapping my heard around this text. The only things that really stuck out to me was Gorgias’s focus on heeding to the irrational persuasion of love. He kept coming back to this as a major idea as to why Helen was in the situation she was. Maybe she was convinced by love. Gorgias almost made the irrational seem rational and tangible when talking about love and its compelling nature.

How many times in our lives have we let the irrational guide our opinions or actions? Of course, I’ve seen many women become tainted with irrational thought so much that it compelled them to action. Just today, I was talking with a friend about my desire to be nice and live guilt-free (in this particular situation, I was speaking of trying to let someone down without hurting feelings) and asking for advice for what to do in this situation. My friend and I were commiserating with each other, thinking about similar problems. Both being girls, we were letting our emotions guide a lot of our feelings. Luckily, there was a man standing behind us while we were talking who chimed in and gave us a more rational train of thought. My guilt (completely irrational) was guiding my thoughts and almost guided my actions. Luckily, this man was using much more persuasive logic.

Both of these stories question the validity of feelings and the pressures that we feel irrationally. I’m not sure what it was that caused Helen to do what she did, but Gorgias makes a very convincing argument that irrational thought may have been the culprit. After today’s events, I’d believe it, too.

Totally Irrational

Maybe I've just been oblivious for many years, but our lecture on Monday about how irrational we as humans can tend to be really struck me.  For example, the other day I nearly succumbed to that impulsive feeling I get every time I hear of a sweet deal on a new bike.  I had to step back and think about why I felt so strongly impelled to buy the sleek new 2015 edition of the most aerodynamic bike in the world.  Somewhere in the back of my mind was some creature toying with my reasoning skills, saying that I needed a new bike. Much of that thought process, presumed reasoning, was entirely irrational.  I admit, if the color scheme had matched my socks, I may have gotten it.

Other examples of being irrational occur daily, such as eating everything on your plate because there are starving kids in Africa, or getting a Ferbie because everyone else has one, or building bomb shelters in small-town Iowa, or eating ice cream for 3 months because you got dumped. 

So much of persuasion has to do with appealing to the senses. Yes, especially the irrational ones.  Gorgias is very cynical of the sneaky ways that philosophers manipulate through "trickery and magic" (10).  He even goes as far to say that opinion is "slippery and unsteady" (11).  Throughout his entire discourse he highlights several of the different irrationalities that may have pervaded the thoughts of men and women in those days. For example, he speaks of erotic desires, fear induced by frightful spectacles, opinions, love, and speeches. Some of these may still influence us today.

It’s interesting how Gorgias weaves his discourse by an appeal to reason.  He emphasizes the irrational, which seems to make him appear much more rational.  This reflects the rhetorical figure of prosapodosis.

Hugs and Harassment

According to Gorgias, we are not to be held accountable for our actions, should the reasoning—logical or not—be sound enough for acceptance.  Though Helen had and utilized her agency, Gorgias argued in her defense.  It must be noted, however, that words are not the only means of persuasion, though they are often the keys used to these other means of getting someone to behave in any particular way desired. 

A potentially deadly creature, the stingray can be soothed
and converted by a calculated touch.

In his defense of Helen, Gorgias argued that Love, the goddess, was to blame.  Helen was not to be held accountable for her actions, as she, a mere mortal, had become subject to the power of the divine.  Being a member of the Church, I find that reasoning absolutely ridiculous.  Helen had her agency—initially at least for sure—but compromised it for whatever reasoning she had, logical or illogical.  Though, I do suppose that in the particular setting and culture in which Helen was the topic of debate, Gorgias must have seemed a master of reasoning and persuasion. 

Thinking back to my own experiences on the topic of persuasion without logic, my mind brings me to that of my girlfriend and my three younger brothers.  Even though my brothers and I are all related, my girlfriend approaches persuading us in different ways.  If, say, she wishes to play a certain videogame with my brothers, she will (as mentioned in one of the previous posts) instill fear by means of harsh words and exercise dominion through her seniority.  On the other hand, my girlfriend is younger than, shorter than, and in a much different relationship with me as opposed to my brothers.  When she wants me to start on a new game server with her, the approach is one of cooing, cuteness, and coaxing ever so cleverly.  Both approaches are different, neither are especially logical, and yet, both are impressively effective.