Convincing Us that We're Suffering?

The prompt for today asked us to show how logos in Euripides’s plays can show the human condition and natural suffering as well as a means of persuasion. I wasn't able to go to the play because I had class, but I was able to find a video of another of Euripides plays online. I watched “Medea.” As I thought about our prompt and watched this play, my first thought was that Euripides does a good job of morphing the two kinds of logos. He is quite persuasive in convincing the audience of the suffering that the characters feel. In a way, If I had been seeing this in person, it may have been even more powerful in persuading me that suffering is the only thing that can come of life. Luckily, I'm more sensible than that.

Medea goes to poison Glauce to gain revenge on her husband

The medium that Euripides used, that of a play, allowed for convincing acting and a severe portrayal of suffering. Within the first five minutes of the play, there was complaining, lamenting, and crying. The actors and actresses used their words as well as their actions to create an environment of distress. This could only have been accomplished with this medium.
The content of this play itself encourages the thought that pain and suffering are inevitable. Medea’s husband wants to leave her, the scandal ruins her family and she is exiled, she plots revenge on her husband (by killing her children…? A bit irrational, don’t you think?), and in the end there is a lot of death and sadness.

Initially, I thought that the different forms of logos would be competing. Ultimately, the union of drama and the human condition was enhanced and made more persuasive through the words and acts of these characters.

"I'm Sorry, That Sucks"

“Not every problem I confide in you needs to be fixed. Sometimes I just want to hear, ‘i'm sorry, that sucks.’”

Boys, have you heard this before? Probably from a girl right? And regardless of whether or not you are capable of fixing the problem the fact of the matter is you are forbidden from even attempting. Is this rational? Probably not. But does it eventually help an individual return to rationality? It is not scientifically proven, but from my experience I would say, yes. As we saw in Hecuba, sometimes we need to be validated in our irrational coping of emotions in an effort to return to rationality.

In the play, with the appearance of the women of Troy, Odysseus, and Agamemnon there was a common response to Hecuba’s penetrating grief. The gist of these statements was “your life is so terrible,” “you are the queen of sorrow, grief, and pain,” “I would rather die than sink as low as you have,” “you poor, old, lonely, slave woman.” Sounds pretty similar to the, “that sucks” concept doesn't it? But why did so many people validate her in her irrational expression of grief? Because, it eventually helps her return to rationality.

Lets analyze the situation. Hecuba, utilizing mimesis is able to effectively persuade others through emotionally charged language, to feel empathy for her and her situation. Then the listener, being filled with compassion, uses rhetoric to persuade Hecuba that she is justified in her all encompassing grief. They vindicate her and let her know she is rational in such extreme emotion. After she is comforted with this validation, she carries on with revenge (which in this society would be considered "rational" because justice was a right esteemed by the gods and executed by the people).

The Value of the Irrational

If I wanted to write about what didn't make sense to me I could talk about how the Greek mythology is fantastic and totally strange, but there was something even more puzzling to me in Euripides' Bakkhai. I find Pentheus' obsession with order to be even more irrational than a baby being stitched to the thigh of the father and being carried to full term after the mother was struck by a lightning bolt (even though that is pretty crazy). The actions of Pentheus show that he simply cannot let the women carry out their rituals in the wilderness. Before he decides to play peeping tom, Pentheus is organizing a military effort to contain the followers of Dionysus, a blunder he pays for with his life. Simply stated, it is irrational to try to control the irrational. In this case the irrational could be interpreted as: Pentheus' need for order and control, the mad women in the wilderness, or at times unchecked lustful temptations.






I think a very valid point is made though the telling of this story. If we don't allow any sort of irrationallity in our lives, it could fester and manifest itself in other ways. Like Pentheus' orderly kingdom we can drain our live of the irrational. In this vacuum there is a certain draw. I argue that there always need to be something irrational in our lives.  I don't think we should allow ourselves to do what ever we want, but if don't allow any space in our lives for something irrational, we might have adverse consequences of seeking it out in a moment of weakness.





I've noticed that in my life I have a total and irrational need for a "relaxation day." I have a day every week where I basically do nothing. I know this is irrational. But I also know I work harder during the
week because of my "relaxation day." My thought process is this, "I've already binged out all of my laziness this week and now I have to work." I know this is just made up in my head, but if I were a completely rational being I think I would go crazy. As evidenced by Euripides, complete self-indulgence can be just as harmful and complete self-denial.

Mother Moo

The Irrational

In preparation for his expedition to go look at the Bacchae women, Pentheus has an exchange with Dionysus where he learns that he will need to disguise himself. As Dionysus explains that Pentheus will need to dress up like a forest woman, wearing “a rich and trailing robe of fine-linen… a snood… [a] dappled fawn-skin and [a] wand,” he resists, saying “Nay, I will not” and, “Enough! I cannot wear a robe and snood.”

Even though Pentheus has some initial resistance to this mandated cross-dressing, his rationality breaks down and he ends up doing it.

The Rational
Euripides uses his craft to help us understand this irrationality of cross-dressing. He reveals that Dionysus, while acting as Pentheus’ guide, can use Pentheus’ curiosity to manipulate him to do something irrational. He helps us realize that when we rationally put our trust in a guide or leader who knows more about something than we do, we may be led to do something irrational.

Euripides develops Dionysus as a character who is definitely in control and can lead or compel others to do irrational things.

The Personal
I was at Girl’s Camp and my older sister invited me to go to the older girls’ cabin and play a game with them. They told me that one girl in the group was going to be the guesser and leave the cabin, another girl inside was going to be silently chosen as the loudest mooer, and then when the guesser girl came back in, everyone would moo loudly at the same time, and the guesser girl would guess who mooed the loudest.

We played one round and then I was chosen to be the loudest mooer. The guesser girl came back in and everyone counted to three, and then I mooed as loud as I possibly could. “MOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!” But no one else was mooing. I was yelling like a cow and I was the only one doing it. I felt so embarrassed and irrational, but decided it was ok because I believed and trusted my guide, my sister.

I don’t think that this technique of attributing irrational acts to some guide or leader is always appropriate. I believe that we each have our own agency to act how we want to. However, Euripides does a great job of highlighting this technique that I am sure many people have experienced.

Architecture: a Civil Expression of Irrationality

What would life be like if there were no possible opportunities for us the "loosen up"? Perhaps Euripides' main point is that in order for a well-ordered, functional, and sane civilization to thrive there must be some form of release. I often reflect on several novels contemporary novels that narrate a dystopian future where there is no freedom, George Orwell's 1984 is one of the foremost examples I feel, in that novel the protagonist finds some outlets of release and freedom, and parts of some hidden, new creature are released. He feels liberated, but throughout the book, when he acts on those more carnal desires his personality almost turns animal-like. I think Orwell and Euripides make a similar point, that there is a point where suppression of our instinctive drives becomes unhealthy, and can lead to disastrous ends. So, how do we find a way to healthily control the animal drives within us that cause disorder and chaos? In the play I love that difference in between the city and the wilderness, most of the irrational things happen in the wilderness, whereas the civil and rational moments happen in the city. It is in the city that Agave comes back to rationality, and where all of the civil discourse takes place. Even the nature of worshiping Dionysus is differs by whether it is in the city or the wilderness. In the city an organized cult worships him, in the wilderness his followers change to different creatures in frenzies of ecstasy.

In the high point of ancient Greek architecture the form of their architecture was emphasized more than the utility of a space. They cared more about the beauty of their structures than the utility, at least in the grand community buildings and temples and things. The buildings were extremely well built and engineered, and all of the measurements are engineered in order to create a beautiful image. (The Parthenon, for example, is not symmetrical when measured out, the different sides of the building are different lengths and the measurements look weird when written or drawn on paper, but when they are applied and built, they look perfect.) Today architects see designing a building where form is allowed to take precedence over function (which generally means more costly buildings, but incredible works of art) as an incredible opportunity for their creativity to take over. When architects design buildings that are irrational, it stirs something within us that inspires more creative power, we relish in the opportunity to create something just for the sake of creating it, just so that we can look at it. When people attend Disney Hall (pictured above right) they see something that is, frankly, irrational, it just looks... well a little crazy, (I think it's beautiful) yet it contributes to society as a place where beautiful music is performed to uplift and inspire.

Don't Abandon Ship!

            The desire to completely let oneself loose and forget all the troubles and forums of life is exemplified quite well in Euripides’ drama Bakkhai. The women run off into the wilderness, lose all sense of morality, and frolic in the woods away from family, responsibility, and civilized life. How could they just abandon their lives like that? How could they forget everything they hold dear?

The 'Abandon Family' ship has too many patrons

After thinking about it, I see those desires in people today. How many of you have considered just dropping out of college? Perhaps go gallivant the country just trying to get away from responsibility. I certainly have. Or when something big is about to happen in life, we desire to run away.

Perhaps more poignant is to look at how many parents (particularly fathers, but sometimes mothers too) abandon their family in search of goodness knows what. I have some great friends who had a parent desert them when they were young and can’t seem to rationalize why it happened.

The maenads personify this condition perfectly. They show us the craziness of letting it all go and running away. Agaue killed her own son because she let herself go too much. It is interesting to note that as soon as she makes it back to civilization she is able to get back to a more normal frame of mind. As soon as they “escape” from that which is their lives, they abandon all form of reason and would do something as unthinkable as murdering their own child. Had they never left they could have remained as a happy family in the city of their ancestors.

Is there a way to deal with this irrational desire to get away from it all? I have used sports for just such a purpose. It is a way to escape the rest of life and focus on that specific competition. I can go away from everything for a brief time, let it all go, and then make it back to regular life unscathed. Perhaps this is part of why watching sports are so popular in today’s world.

Fortunate Misfortune

Reading Euripedes' Bakkhai, all that was running through my mind was "wild."  In the story, the women of Bakkhai hide among the mountains performing their mystic rites, while Pentheus and his men seek to observe and thwart.  Unfortunately for Pentheus, his attempts to disprove the legitimacy of the Bakkhai's practices for the god Dionysus instead slowly convert those around him.  His men, after seeing the maenads dancing in the mountains and decimating villages in the most brutal of ways, cannot help but open their eyes to the power of Dionysus, admitting that he is in fact above mortals.  Through Dionysus' passive resistance and careful lulling, he slowly manipulates Pentheus to dress as a woman so as not to be torn to pieces for being a man amongst the maenads.  With this ploy of Dionysus, he successfully humiliates Pentheus before having his own mother kill him, a fitting revenge for one that mocked and questioned Dionysus' godhood, or is it?  Some may argue for, and some may argue against the rationality of Dionysus.  For me, however, the balance of attack and counterattack does not seem to settle evenly. 

In my own life, I had the worst of trials to surpass.  I needed to grit my teeth and trudge onward or else forever live amidst confusing, dark fog.  Wrongly punished?  Unfair?  If either was the case, it was an irrational punishment for nothing on my part.  Things just happened, I suppose.  Still, my "punishment" was impossibly brutal and set me back quite a few steps in life.  In response to this, I decided to vent and articulate my frustrations in print, writing my first book, Orrleth.  Through it, I was able to depressurize my rage at the world, recover from my mishap, and also provide some sort of good to the world if one so wished to read and enjoy.  Though the logical path would be to let myself stay frenzied at the world, I chose to regain composure and recover.  In that case, however, was that the rational thing to do?  Wasn't it irrational not to lash back at my persecutor in turn?  The only problem with that was that there was no particular offender who had committed the wrong.  It was just terrible luck, so why bother punishing the world, right?  

You can enjoy one of my first gifts back to the world by visiting my book website:

http://www.orrleth.com

Irrational punishment by those in power

In this play, we see an interesting characteristic of the irrationality of the powerful vs the rationality of the weak. In the middle of the play we see Pentheus, a mortal man, punish Dionysus, a relatively powerful demigod, by sending the latter to the dungeon. This type of punishment would fit the supposed crime that Dionysus had committed and would thus be classified as rational. Yet, at the end of the play, Dionysus creates an elaborate plan to brutally punish Pentheus by having his own mother rip him to pieces and braggingly carry his head around as a trophy. One would be hard pressed to argue that this punishment is rational for any crime. And thus, we see the strange paradox that people with power will act irrationally while those who are weaker will generally act rationally – with respect to punishing others.

I saw this exact same phenomenon in the military. While I was a new cadet at the United States Military Academy, those in charge of me put me through some rigorous tasks. On the whole, the cadre will fairly mean, but an occasion arose in which I could have gotten my commanding officer in a great deal of trouble for a mistake that he made. In my current, “weak” status, the idea of punishing my commanding officer, who had already felt guilty enough for his mistake, seemed unfair and irrational to me. I chose to let his punishment be self-inflicted and move on with life. A few years later, the roles reversed and I was in charge of training the new cadets. A bizarre change occurred while I was in command. I had the irrational urge to punish the new cadets as fiercely as was legally permissible. 

In retrospect, I link my irrational, punishment tendencies to that power that I held over the new cadets. The power turned to pride – a pride that felt tainted and slighted when the new cadets made mistakes. I felt it was a personal insult to me when they would mess up and therefor punished them severely. Whereas when I was the new cadet, void of any power, I saw no reason for excessive irrational punishment.

Becoming Fond of Justice

Justice. Seems rational . . . at least in our world where it is paired with mercy. In our world it is a means to repentance, healing, and to creating order. In the world of Bakkhai, justice is a vicious, fiery, irrational cycle of self-interest. It started with Zeus himself. “It was Zeus who was to blame for the wrongdoing in her [Semele] bed” (pg 46). And yet, only one individual had to answer the demands of justice, and it wasn’t Zeus. As a god he "could" completely exempt himself from answering to those actions. Dionysos, as a god, felt as if he had been treated unjustly. And in Bakkhai we read that he sought justice by then being unjust himself. These flaws in the gods are human. Are we not guilty of being more fond of justice when it is being brought to our offenders rather than when we ourselves are the offenders? But, because Zeus and Dionysos are gods and not mortals, that is where justice turned irrational and embodied revenge rather than order. Justice requires an authority figure who abides by the law. It’s in our humanity to oppose that order. Yet, the rationality is found when the one establishing the demands of justice actually adheres to the law while the one answering to justice learns to overcome his or her humanity. I think this is the point Euripides was trying to make. That justice only has a rational framework when the two parties are at different understandings of justice; because otherwise both in their limited knowledge act self-centeredly and impose injustice upon each other.

I saw this growing up in my own family and in the families I babysat. Parents are not perfect. In my experience though, all honestly try to be just and merciful with each of their children. I have witnessed so many cases where one sibling believes no matter what the request or consequence is that it is unjust. This child would always compare their punishments and rewards to those of the other kids in the family, never recognizing that even similar situations have different outcomes because of the other child’s ability to accept the consequences and not fight it. Eventually, each child’s understanding of justice evolves and they learn to respond differently. This development helps keep order intact. Choices have consequences that we do not choose. And there are loving authority figures who are trying to help us overcome ourselves whom we need to acknowledge and listen to. This understanding is rational and to believe justice doesn't apply to us or that we are somehow exempt is irrational.

Bakkh Humbug

RRRRRRIIIIIP.

Was anybody else just cringing as they read that section where Agaue tears Pentheus apart? Eugh. If that's not an irrational action, I don't know what is. It would've been one thing if Agaue was a mean murderous mother from the start. But when she comes back into town and wakes up from her worshiping craziness, she sorrows for what she's done. So the question is: why did she give in to this irrationality?

Let's look at it like this: 

  1) Agaue lived in the forest,
  2) and Pentheus lived in the city.

Euripides used this theatrical framework for Agaue's irrationality because all of us can understand the difference between the two settings. We all have a shared social perception of what each is like. Thus:

  1) It makes sense that Agaue took on the persona of a forest creature and became wild, violent, and rabid, even.
  2) It makes sense that Pentheus from the orderly, logical city fell victim to the chaos of the wild.

This seems much more rational, right? Instead of saying, "Agaue was overcome...swept away...Dionysos...ya know," we can say, "Agaue grew into a beastly creature--and did beastly things--because her environment affected her in that way."


In my life, writing is the way that I deal with my own irrationalities. I love to write poetry that uses symbolistic themes to express emotions--things that are difficult to express otherwise. I'm currently working on a poem like this for my creative writing class. It's entitled "A Popcorn Ceiling," and in the poem I use the pieces of (you guessed it) a popcorn ceiling to represent memories of home and family. This image, in turn, helps me express the rather abstract feeling of nostalgia. The popcorn ceiling is like my "setting" that I use to help other people understand and accept my topic.

The Rationale of Basketball

          Dionysus is called “the god of letting go”. I would argue that a better title would be “the god of irrationality”. Letting go is often much needed in human lives, such as when faced with the stress of school, work, dating, and more all at once. However there are many situations when people decide to let go in a dramatic fashion, and in the process also let go of any grasp of reason. One situation comes to mind of a family I know well. The parents of the family were happily married for over 30 years with two kids when all of a sudden the husband decided that he wanted to “let go” by abandoning his family and marriage to try out some new found homosexual desires. There is only two ways of looking at this man’s recent decision. Either he has just made the most irrational decision of his life, or by making this new decision is saying that for the past 30 years he has made a slew of irrational decisions.

I love this quote, and I apply the last two sentences to almost everything in my life.

Before Pentheus hears the tale of what the cowherd saw and experienced in the forest he wants to arrest or destroy the women for their attempt to go against the Theban society. After he hears about the women firsthand, and with a little persuasion by Dionysus, he is drawn by the sexuality of the women to go and investigate. This complete flip flop from his original feelings about the Bakkhai ultimately results in his own mother taking his life. This shows the most powerful lesson from the Bakkhai, that irrational behavior amplified by sexuality will cause those closest to us to turn on us and lose their love and concern for us.

                It is important to have a way of dealing with our sexual drive and other characteristics of human nature that seem to decrease our ability to make rational decisions. Basketball has always helped me to deal with irrational thoughts in life. There are certain things that are in your control and out of your control in the game. There are rational and irrational decisions to be made in the game. The outcome will be based on the sum total of these 4 things. Life is comparable to this. Through hard work, good decision making, and a little luck you can win the game both of basketball, and life. 

Irrationality = Rationality

In The Bakkhia, the rational Pentheus is destroyed
 by irrationality.

I am intrigued with Euripides’s use of the topic of invention, comparison.  The Bakkhia is chock-full of comparison and symbolism.  The most intriguing symbolism is that between men and women.  Women seem to represent chaos and irrationality, while men, specifically Pentheus, seem to represent order and rationality.  For example, the only revelers in Mount Kithairon are women.  The women are naked, suckle wolf cubs, and hunt with their bare hands.  That should not make sense to anyone, even in Greek times.  Furthermore they believe that Dionysus is a god.  By all reasonable thought, Dionysus should not exist.  However, irrationally, Dionysus was birthed again from Zeus’s thigh.  And when Dionysus showed up in Thebes, he was dressed with long hair like a women, furthering his irrationality.

Contrast that to Pentheus, who could be considered a symbol of Athens.  Athenians prided themselves on their rationality and logic.  Pentheus does not believe in the irrational.  He doesn’t think Dionysus exists.  He thinks that the irrational women should be put to death. Even though he leaves his manly rationality behind when he dresses as a woman, he does not accept it as a power.  His mother, Aguaë, a symbol for irrationality, destroys him.  His downfall, therefore, is not recognizing irrationality as a hugely powerful force that controls a bit of everyone’s life.

In writing this play, Euripides takes irrational thought and makes it tangible.  We can then deal 

Poetry allows me to express my irrational emotions
             in a rational way.

with it, and understand our erratic thoughts. If Pentheus represents Athens and Aguaë represents irrationality, Euripides is warning Athens to not become too rational because irrationality is a huge and powerful part of life.  I have always thought the best way to make something innately human and irrational into something tangible and rational is to personify it in the arts.  I think that is what Euripides is doing when he wrote The Bakkhia.  I, like Euripides have dealt with irrationality through writing.  I once got into a huge fight with my father.  After I stormed out of the house, I wrote this poem on my phone’s notepad.  It helped me be able to see my emotions in a tangible, understandable, and rational way while the poem itself is irrational.

Here it is:

Evaporation

Love-guilt spilled out of her mouth,

But he boiled it.  It turned to steam,

Unsure in its floating consistency

Until it became dry ash, undrinkable

Though it longed to be drunk.

I am Drawn that Way: Sex, Euripides, and Jessica Rabbit

Using an ancient Greek play and a Disney movie, I'm going to try to discuss how we use art as a way of dealing with the powerful human sexual drive. (This is my attempt to fulfill the assignment about Euripides I've given to my students, though this is longer than what they need write.)

Things don't work out for Pentheus
a peeping Tom among the Bakkhai

In the Bakkhai by Euripides, the character Pentheus wants to have order in his city but gets frustrated by the Bakkhai, women who go outside the boundaries of the city (and of morality) to celebrate the rites of the God Dionysus (or Bacchus). Those rites tend to include a lot of wine and little clothing. Despite himself, Pentheus is drawn to spy upon the celebrants. This proves his undoing.

The mask of Dionysus
suggests his animalistic power

In a sense Euripides provides a very common morality lesson: if you indulge sexual passion, it will cost you dearly. But the way he structures his play gives us interesting ways of understanding and dealing with sexuality. For one thing, the god Dionysus blatantly expects to be worshiped. Essentially, he says "If you don't participate in the licentious activities that I endorse, you're going to get it." We can dismiss this as the ravings of a fictional pagan god, or a cheap excuse to get drunk. Or, we can consider that Euripides uses Dionysus to personify primal human drives. In that case, it makes me wonder whether I respect Dionysus. (I'm not going to worship him. I believe in the Christian god, but maybe Dionysus is more metaphor than being.) But on to my Disney example.

Assignment: Euripides' Bakkhai and a Rationale for the Irrational

Pentheus Among the Bakkhai

I've asked my students to read the Bakkhai (or Bacchae) by Euripides. This play is providing some contextual background for the Greek development of the art of rhetoric.

Their assignment is to respond to the irrational and the rational elements of the play, and to personalize this (again) by drawing upon personal experience.

The Irrational
What are the things in this play that do not make sense? Consider the motives or actions of any of the characters, the degree to which these characters accurately reflect truly irrational aspects of us humans, or even consider how (un)realistic the play is. You can focus on Dionysus (or Bacchus). It may seem very obvious, but what's the problem or issues with a God like Dionysus? Say why this deity or what he does just doesn't make sense. Another angle could be gender: How is each sex represented as driven by things other than reason? How does sex amplify the irrationality of the human condition? Choose any of these approaches or something similar dealing with the theme of irrationality.

The Rational
Consider how Euripides uses his craft as a playwright to provide a rational framework for the irrational that is present in the play. How does he bring out opposites? Consider male / female, city / wilderness, etc. Does the highly formal nature of the play give a more discernible way of talking about the issues? I'm looking for discussion about the functions of art, language, and theater and how these provide structure and form for the meaningful investigation of powerful, irrational forces native to the human condition.