Cicero vs Plato

It’s honestly nothing new when I say that the differences are very distinct between the literary elements and rhetoric of Cicero’s De oratore and Plato’s Gorgias. Plato does a pristine job of utilizing dialogue to completely destroy rhetoric and make Socrates look completely different than what he really was. Cicero utilized his speech to exploit different aspects of the rhetorical ideas and I would agree with Hailee’s post that it was very insightful. 

The main point that initially came to my mind was similar to the same points that Joseph made in his post. He discusses the differences in morality between Cicero and Plato. We can clearly see that Plato’s ethics and morals aren’t very sound. I feel like he doesn’t give others the opportunity to make rebuttals nor speak in general. We can see that Cicero does a much better job at adding a moral value to his own oratory. He is more open minded and is willing to scrutinize various points of a given topic.

I also really liked Brooke’s point about De Oratore’s arrangement. For whatever reason, I felt like it was set up in a peculiar way and it was different than the other readings that we have been assigned. It absolutely was in a very clear, organized way so that the reader can see clearly that the points Cicero makes are demonstrated in his own writings. Irony. 

Drip. Drip. Drip.

Katie mentioned at the end of her post that Elder Bednar quoted prophets to strengthen his argument.

Indeed, Elder Bednar quotes five prophets at the beginning of his talk to improve his ethos. Each quote adds a drop of strength to his argument that Church members should "flood"the world with the gospel.

As members of the Church, we revere the prophets. So hearing Elder Bednar quote Brigham Young, "Every discovery in science and art . . . has been given by direct revelation from God," strongly affects us.


Brigham Young? He was, like, the prophet after Joseph Smith.

That means he's old.

That means he knew about technology long before our time.

That means prophets know stuff, and that Elder Bednar knows that prophets know stuff.

That means we should listen to Elder Bednar.

This is essentially what goes through our minds as we hear that quote from Brigham Young. Drip. And then again when we hear the voice of Spencer W. Kimball. Drip. And again as we watch our beloved Gordon B. Hinckley. Drip.


Socrates makes reference to leaders in his argument, too. He recounts how he personally heard Pericles, a prominent political figure, speak (p. 40). Then, he alludes to the writings of a known philosopher, Anaxagorus (p. 49). They must have been figures of import; otherwise, Socrates wouldn't have mentioned them.

At first it appears that this isn't as effective as Elder Bednar's drip-drip-drip strategy at the beginning of his talk. Perhaps, though, it is more effective for Socrates' audience. By mentioning these famous leaders throughout his argument, Socrates reminds his audience that, "Hey. I've listened to Pericles. Drip. I've studied other philosophers. Drip. I know what's up."

Thus, this rhetorical strategy of testimony helps strengthen the ethos (and therefore the arguments) of both Elder Bednar and Socrates.

"Brothers and Sisters"

Perhaps as members of the Church, we all too often overlook or take for granted the audience we become a part of when someone begins their talk.  So it is with Elder Bednar's "To Sweep the Earth as with a Flood."  Opening with "Brothers and sisters," the simple three-word phrase immediately kindles a sense of belonging and familiarity among members while simultaneously creating that familial bond with those not of the faith.  This is both an excellent and effective means of demonstrating ethos—and even pathos somewhat—as this phrasing not only shows equal standing among the speaker and audience, but also connects the two. 

Through this opening establishment, Elder Bednar then goes on to talk about the overwhelmingly positive potential contained within social media, namely all of the many networking services available (Facebook, Pinterest, etc.) and their corresponding utility.  In a matter of seconds, information can travel from point A to point B through Z, regardless of geographical location.  By this, Elder Bednar focuses on the virtue of modern technology and media in this epideictic oratory. 

Still, as in the case of Socrates, to show that his laud is not blindly given, Elder Bednar addresses some of the weaknesses and flaws in the system he so praises.  With Socrates, he initially opts to be friendly and visibly interested in what wisdom Gorgias has to offer, ensuring that best intentions are meant before cautioning and questioning the "perfect" validity and coherence of the wisdom for which the rhetorician is so widely acclaimed.  With this gentle reproval, both Elder Bednar and Socrates humanize with their audience by acknowledging fault, both in themselves and in their subjects.  By using communication and going into the mechanics behind it, both speakers adequately convey their messages in a way that listeners can follow without naiveté.  

Assignment: Rhetorical Analysis of David A. Bednar's "To Sweep the Earth as with a Flood"

The purpose of this assignment is to practice rhetorical analysis using terminology learned to date, and to consider this contemporary public speech in light of classical Greek rhetoric and philosophy.

Steps:

1. Watch and read the address delivered on August 19, 2014 by David A. Bednar, "To Sweep the Earth as with a Flood." 
2. Review the rhetorical concepts studied to date and use these (selectively) to analyze the speech and/or its contexts (which can include the live event, the video recording, or the written transcript). 
3. In a post of close to 300 words, present your analysis within a short argument that relates the ideas or the methods in Elder Bednar's speech to the ideas or methods used by Socrates in Plato's Gorgias. Consider that communication is both a means and a topic (for both Plato/Socrates and for Elder Bednar).
4. Use an illustration or picture if possible. This could even be a photo of your marked-up version of either text.

Due: Friday, September 12, 2014 by 10:00pm (initial posts). Comments can follow.